Interview with Tyrone Wilson
“They move in silence.” Insider/observer of Ulster County and Kingston politics who spoke on condition of anonymity.
“Tyrone, buckle up. They’re coming after you because they’re going to use you to go after Frank.” — Warning allegedly delivered to Tyrone Wilson that he would be used to smear Frank Waters, mayoral challenger to incumbent Steve Noble.
June 26, 2023
NOTE: THIS SECTION ENCOMPASSES THE LAST 2/3rds OF THE INTERVIEW. THE BEGINNING WILL BE ADDED LATER TODAY (TUESDAY THE 27TH).
Was Tyrone Wilson’s firing timed to benefit political interests in Kingston and Ulster County?
ILONA: Were any of the cases about sexuality?
TYRONE: Yeah, so my first case in office was a transgender case who was dealing with harrassment. Really cruel stuff. They took her cat and killed the cat in the backyard. That was my first case. I announced that we had zero tolerance.
ILONA: Were there criminal charges?
TYRONE: No, it went to the sheriff. I didn’t really get a followup, but I know that the community gathered around the individual I think helped paint her house in LGBTQ colors. She was not backing down and she stood her ground. I didn’t hear anything else about it. I was very supportive. I believe everybody has a right to be who they want and nobody should be targeted or attacked. I stand on that. It just so happened to be my first case in office.
ILONA: Let’s talk about why you were fired. It had something to do with a radio show on Radio Kingston for Harambee.
[Ed. note: The brouhaha erupted when the Kingston High School principal was put on leave for using the word “fudge-packer” in a social media post.]
TYRONE: Yeah, so this particular show happened in September of 2022. We have segment called “Let’s Talk Cultural Shock” and Shalawn Brown was my cohost. I never know what her segment is going to be until I hear it. I hear it the same time everybody else hears it. This time she chose to read the article in the Daily Freeman about the principal. She didn’t understand what was the big thing, what was the meaning of the word. So we always have discussions on what she reads. I took the time to explain that there is a football term of the same derogatory word that has nothing to do with sexuality.
ILONA: What’s the origin in the football sense of that word?
TYRONE: The origin is that the Green Bay Packers were owned by a fudge brownie company in the early years. So “Fudgepackers” had nothing to do with sexuality. It was actually about the fudge brownies. I played football for a big chunk of my life. That’s where I heard it. I had never heard it in the sexual sense. So when I heard it here, it was the first time I heard it that way.
[Ed. note: According to Wikipedia, the team was owned by a meat-packing company. However, chocolate and other candy manufacturers and packagers are an important segment of the local economy in the Packers’ hometown of Kenosha, WI.]
ILONA: Oh, you had no idea about the sexual connotation. And how old were you when you first heard it in the football sense?
TYRONE: I was about 10. I was playing in a football league for young kids in New York City. We were named after NFL teams. I played for the Giants. There was a Dallas team, and there was a Green Bay Packers team, so we heard it. And would always say well we’re gonna go up against the Packers… with the chocolate prefix. So we never associated it to that.
ILONA: Are you telling me that you didn’t know until 2022? You had no idea about a sexual connotation? If Shalawn Brown wasn’t clear on it either, did you deduce through the newspaper article that the name had a sexual connotation, or did you ask around?
TYRONE: I heard the whole uproar. I was trying to figure it out because I know it from this sense. And when the paper came out I said, Ohhh, okay. So on the radio show, I said, “No disrespect to the LGBTQ community at all. This is not about that.” I said the word on the air, and they took that and said I was being derogatory and offensive to the LGBTQ community because I was explaining that there does exist a football term that’s not sexual. They said I used the word 16 times, but that wasn’t even close.
ILONA: Do we have the radio show so we can check?
TYRONE: I don’t have it. Last I heard they did take it off [the archive] but then I heard that they found it and sent it to the Times Union. I wanted people to know there was a different perspective and we should be mindful that where we come from [contains] different languages. Just like I’ve never heard it that way down there in New York. And people will be conscious here of a sexual way. So I never heard it that way. My take with my frustration is that you want to cancel me out for what I learned and what I came up in and say that it doesn’t exist. You’re trying to tell me that all that I came up with and learned, I’m not supposed to share it.
ILONA: A human rights violation against you!
TYRONE: When [the radio show] started I was clear it was going to be about hard talks, about what’s going on in the community. It’s gonna be tough conversations. And that’s what I based the show on.
ILONA: Did the management of Radio Kingston try to, um, not necessarily censor, but try to “guide” the conversation to make it more gentle, even if it was less accurate?
TYRONE: Yeah. So there was individuals at the show the day it happened that called [management] who rushed to the show and came on the air and we had a back and forth on the air. That was our last show.
ILONA: Was there a history of other issues?
TYRONE: Yeah. I had another show where we had a guest who said on the air that the Black communities needed to pay attention to the Jewish communities. And he said we need to pay attention to how Jewish communities circulate their dollars and build their community. And that became derogatory.
ILONA: But it wasn’t you who said it, yet they held you responsible. What happens if you say Puerto Rican families are close knit. Would that be a problem?
TYRONE: That’s a great question. Based on what they say, to them that would probably be derogatory. But I have talked about the Black community, I have talked about the gun violence in the Black community. No one has called me about that. No one has said that was derogatory. So is it okay for me to talk about the Black community and all the crimes and murders in our Black community? Nobody has called me on that. But the moment I say something outside of the Black community, I’m being derogatory?
ILONA: So there were letters of complaint to county government about the “chocolate.”
TYRONE: The County felt like now they needed to investigate. Radio Kingston sent the County the radio show. [Acting County Executive Joanna Contreras, Deputy County Executives Chris Kelly and Marc Rider] listened to the show. Joanna Contreras pretty much recused herself. I had a meeting with Marc Rider and personnel director Dawn Spader.
ILONA: The memo contained allegations that you denied. What were they, exactly?
TYRONE: Being insensitive to the LGBTQ community, not being mindful of the language being used. I was more than willing to have [a circle]. I wanted to talk to the people who were offended. I was hoping to see them and really share this perspective. I was hoping to have the opportunity to share that to the circle.
ILONA: Did anyone agree to the circle?
TYRONE: When I got to the circle two legislators were the only two there, Peter Criswell and Abe Uchitelle. I was kind of aggravated about that because I was looking forward to the opportunity to share my perspective with individuals who felt that I offended them.
ILONA: Were Peter Criswell and Abe Uchitelle among those who filed complaints?
TYRONE: No. I was told by Peter Criswell that he was representing those who were offended.
ILONA: And yet he himself was not necessarily offended, was he?
TYRONE: No. I offered Peter, as director of the LGBTQ community, “Let’s have a dialogue, and you bring community members to the table.” His exact words to me were, absolutely not. Then why are you here? Because you’re not here for resolution. Okay, I offended people. So what do we do next? I’m offering a dialogue. The problem is nobody’s coming to the table to talk. Abe Uchitelle said, “You know, Tyrone, we are good friends. This is tough for me.” Circles are about resolution. It’s not just about all the problems on the table. You got to create a resolution to that. That wasn’t happening.
ILONA: Did you explain to them the history, that you had no idea [about the sexual connotation]?
TYRONE: Absolutely.
ILONA: And they didn’t accept it?
TYRONE: They were more interested in telling me how offended people were. That’s the problem. For resolution, community members should have been there. Human Rights commissioners should have been there.
ILONA: How many Human Rights Commissioners are there?
TYRONE: Eleven members are on the Human Rights Commission. That’s who comes every first Thursday of the month for a public meeting. We talk about cases, we talk about anything that’s happening that we need to address. I’m the director.
ILONA: There are supposed to be 11 commissioners. Are there 11 commissioners?
TYRONE: There are 11 commissioners now. I fought for almost a whole year. They left me hanging because legislators did not fill the seats. There was a time — almost a year — when I was working with about four or five commissioners. I kept sending emails and it was being ignored.
ILONA: How are the seats filled?
TYRONE: The County Exec has five picks. The Minority leader has three, and the Majority has three. I was left with six seats open for almost a year.
ILONA: How was that a handicap?
TYRONE: It’s a handicap because you don’t have a quorum.
ILONA: Let me guess that without a quorum, you can’t take action. Did any cases you wanted to address involve governmental entities?
TYRONE: Yes.
ILONA: Can we speculate that there was a delay in filling the seats because the County might not have wanted to address problems within the County?
TYRONE: You know, at the time I didn’t even think about that, but when I look back at it now, probably so.
ILONA: Did these have to do with DSS?
TYRONE: I will say on the record that my cases had to do with the finance department of the county and my other case had to do with DSS.
ILONA: We have two issues here: former Ulster County Finance Commissioner Burton Gulnick, who has been charged, and DSS Commissioner Michael Iapoce, whose resignation is being called for by some Ulster County residents.
TYRONE: The finance situation happened in 2021 during COVID. We have a county tax auction open to the public. I got wind that 40 people were selected.
ILONA: In other words, the public could not attend. You had to be specifically selected.
TYRONE: So when I inquired, because it was brought to my attention, I was told that this is how they were doing it because of COVID.
ILONA: There were no options to attend via zoom and place bids on the phone?
TYRONE: No. It was these 40 people. So after I got wind of that I sent an email to Burt asking who are these 40 people and how were they selected. It was about two weeks later that Burt contacted me back and notified me that they wouldn’t have that auction. But I never got the 40 people or how they were selected. It kind of went off the radar after that. So I have no knowledge of the 40 people or how they were selected. Now the DSS situation is 2023, it’s right now stuff. I was touring these hotels and motels where these people were living. My office was being flooded with people from DSS. My office was right next to DSS so I can’t tell you how many times I or my assistant walked over with clients to DSS because of how they were being talked to or treated. When we went over there the same exact things they were trying to get done got done only because we were there. I started questioning why DSS was sending people to these ferocious hotels and why we were paying them so much money.
ILONA: How much do they pay?
TYRONE: That’s $1,500 a month for a unit.
ILONA: And we’re talking single rooms with a microwave, if you’re lucky.
TYRONE: If you’re lucky. So, if you look at it, we spend millions of dollars a year. Millions. In the millions to house people in these hotels. It’s beyond slum. It’s so bad that people may have a better chance sleeping on the streets because of the mold in these places, the open sockets, the beds that are disgusting. The Highland hotel in the Town of Lloyd was one of the hotels I visited. Just last month there was a murder there. The owner had to clean out the murder scene. They cleaned out everything in there and they were going to throw the beds out. He told them to keep the beds. You know what happened? The residents there knew that a murder had taken place, and this young lady who they put in there, they told her about the murder and pulled down the sheets and there were bloodstains on the mattress. On the mattress! This is what we’re dealing with at DSS. This is the type of stuff that we deal with. Now, the day I got terminated on April 18, the day I got terminated, I was at the Skytop Motel. Skytop had been on my radar for almost two months. I had a young lady who was pregnant, with a four-year-old active child, and her fiancé living in… I guess you would call it a kitchenette. Here you’ve got three people, one a pregnant woman. She has her bed made so her and the kid can lie on the bed and the fiancé had a blanket on the floor. This is how they’re living. Mold, no bars on the window, open sockets, we go in the bathroom and it’s crazy moldy. Now, I wasn’t there at that time for that purpose. I was there because her claim was that management was retaliating against her. They wouldn’t let her in her place. The fiancé had to climb through the window and open the door to let them in. That’s why I was originally there but when I got there I saw all of that.
ILONA: What were they retaliating against her for?
TYRONE: Because she was a whistleblower on the complex.
ILONA: Because of the conditions?
TYRONE: The conditions. When I was there on that day on April 18 I got a call from [Ulster County Legislature Chair] Tracey Bartels. [He explained that Bartels, Ulster County Executive Jen Metzger and Ulster County Chief Diversity Officer Esi Lewis had previously expressed a desire to accompany Wilson on trips to motels.] So I sent them an email inviting them to come out. They declined.
ILONA: They said they wanted to come out with you and then they refused?
TYRONE: So on that day, I get a call from Tracey Bartels telling me why am I there, I’m not supposed to be there. This is a legislator telling me that this is not my job.
ILONA: Hold on a second. Is it a legislator’s job to tell you what your job is?
TYRONE: No. That’s my problem.
ILONA: And is it your job?
TYRONE: Absolutely. In this particular matter, retaliation is key. It’s retaliation that gives me permission to do the investigation. They didn’t ask me that. Tracy Bartels, Jen Metzger did not even ask why I was there. They didn’t know why I was there. I was there for retaliation. Retaliation is under my class. I just want to be clear that I was there on a retaliation claim. What I saw when I got there was just extra. Within 15 minutes, I get a call from the County Exec’s office asking me to come to the office. That’s when the termination happened. Jen said, “You know Tyrone, this stuff keeps happening, keeps happening.” She didn’t say what, but she said it keeps happening. I asked, What is it you’re talking about? And she said people are not comfortable coming to your office because of the public stuff you say.
ILONA: This is even though you’ve had many more cases than in the past. You’ve had more than a tripling of cases resolved. And she still said that people are not comfortable coming to you.
TYRONE: I hear this all the time, but I’ve never seen anybody.
ILONA: And you don’t know the exact nature of the complaints either.
TYRONE: I don’t.
ILONA: All you knew about is the Jewish comment that you didn’t make. And the chocolate comments whose significance you didn’t know about.
TYRONE: The most I got that she was basing her [argument] on was the next day when the Times Union article came out. They put up Facebook posts. I have a pet peeve about child support. The courts should focus more on co-parenting. Stop just using the money as a tool because it’s not helping the family. The child still suffers. Teach them to co-parent. You know what that made me become? A womanizer. I was a womanizer because I talked about the battles about child support. They took that off a Facebook post. And Callie Jayne — I’m gonna say her name — she lied in that post. She said that I was at a rally and I told an Asian person to get back on the boat. She said she has two witnesses who heard me say this too. I would never say something like that.
ILONA: Where was this rally supposed to have taken place?
TYRONE: I don’t know. Now the Asian thing. Here goes another cultural thing. My mother’s 73 years old. My whole life she always said, Look at my baby with his chinky eyes. I heard it my whole life. In my community back home in Harlem, the bodegas, the Chinese restaurants, they are part of us. No way in the world have we would have ever done anything [insulting]. I don’t come from that. So when my moms put up on a Facebook page a post of me and my two sons and she put, Look at my beautiful son and my grandbabies, I said, Yeah, your beautiful son with his chinky eyes, Mom. BOOM! It blew the roof. And I”m talking about ME! I got these eyes from my Dad.
ILONA: Maybe you have Asian blood. I did a story years ago about the origin of Latin Chinese cuisine in restaurants that dot the upper reaches of Manhattan. A lot of intermarriage took place as Asians and Hispanics immigrated to the Caribbean. I don’t remember if it was Jamaica…
TYRONE: Yeah. Jamaica.
ILONA: Was it Jamaica?
TYRONE: They’re still in Jamaica right now. I go to Jamaica every year. We got family there. They’ve got Chinese-looking…
ILONA: Intermarriage.
TYRONE: So people are running and jumping and claiming people are doing hurtful things but they’re actually the ones doing hurtful things.
ILONA: Did you ever get sensitivity training?
TYRONE: No, but after all this started happening I asked for it.
ILONA: And did you get it?
TYRONE: No, I never got it. This kept happening so much and there was no mandatory training, there was nothing.
ILONA: Let’s talk about political reasons for your firing. What is your relationship with Frank Waters?
TYRONE: Me and Frank Waters are good partners. We met around 2015 or 2016. We clicked. My Kingston Kids was formed a year before Harambee was. Frank was the first person on board as a Harambee member. Harambee was formed because I wanted to bring an African American festival to Kingston. I’m from Harlem, and we have one of the biggest African American festivals there is. I just wanted to bring that energy here and recognize those contributions.
ILONA: Do you think that firing you and publicizing your so-called insensitivity was timed to embarrass Frank Waters?
TYRONE: Absolutely. I want to go a little further than that. I know it was. I was made aware of the situation, not really knowing how it was going to play out, but I was made aware almost a month before it happened.
ILONA: In other words, someone told you in March that you were going to be…
TYRONE: The exact words were, “Tyrone, buckle up. They’re coming after you because they’re going to use you to go after Frank.”
ILONA: Frank is challenging the incumbent mayor Steve Noble.
TYRONE: Steve inherited a lot from what we did. What we have in Kingston made people pay attention to Kingston. We were getting calls from Poughkeepsie, Ellenville to create what we created here in Kingston, and all of that made Steve Noble look good, right? This is why he kept giving us proclamations every year. We got acknowledged by the Common Council for our work that we did in Kingston.
ILONA: So after giving you all the proclamations then Steve Noble pointed the finger at his opponent Frank Waters and said, “Oh, look, he’s friends with Tyrone Wilson.”
TYRONE: What Steve Noble did was ask Frank to denounce me publicly because of my termination, which was nasty. When you have a mayor who put out publicly in the paper that they would not work with a fired County person. He said that in the article. What does that have to do with the City of Kingston? It was clearly a nasty political move. They wanted to smear Frank. We were aware they were waiting til Frank made the ballot and when Frank made the ballot they were coming after me and it happened exactly how it was said it was going to happen.
[Wilson said he was not involved in the Waters campaign.]
TYRONE: But because of the threat of Frank Waters possibly being the mayor, this is where the dirty stuff comes out and this is how they play the game. And I approached Steve Noble right at City Hall in the parking lot. It was in the paper. And I told Steve Noble, ‘You are dirty. It is a dirty move, because you should have just had pride and self-respect that you are so comfortable that you did good in eight years of running [the City of Kingston]. Let that speak for you. You are friends with me and Frank, or supposedly. This doesn’t need to be a dirty game. Respectfully, run, go for it. The winner is the winner. That’s what it’s supposed to be, but you made it dirty.’ I said, ‘Steve, I know why. Because based on your team and how they are moving I know it’s not about that. This is about money. This is all about money. People need you in office for big money to happen. They need you. You made that very clear. So this is not about the people. This is about the money that you’re aligning with. And I can tell you right now that I can go home and sleep good at night. I serve the people and I serve them well and I gave them the best that I have. If you guys are comfortable with [what you do] and that’s what you want to live and you can look at yourself in the mirror, well, God bless you.’
-0-